Town Hall Meeting - 30 July 1998

(What follows is a log of the meeting, automatically generated by the eShare software.)

Melanie:	hey hey
SaraJack:	wow.... same people in this room too.. *L*
Fred:	I was looking at the newsletter on the web site. I didn't see Meeting Hall on it.
Felan:	Well, sure. We're the only ones logged on right now, I think. :)
SaraJack:	I'm honestly not sure how I cut my finger melanie..... I think I did it working in the yard yesterday...
SaraJack:	my clock says 9:24 EST
SaraJack:	My clock says 9:24 EST
SaraJack:	My clock says 9:24 EST
Fred:	I got 8:20 CDT
SaraJack:	brb
Felan:	It's 6:19.
rowin:	Ahhh that's better than squinting (just finds "font larger" button)
Fred:	I just hope this doesn't turn into the chat I was in last Thursday.
Fred:	250+ people, nearly all talking at once
Fred:	Testing.
Felan:	Whee. Everyone's vanished so far. :)
Kynn:	Net suckage.
Felan:	I hope that's it.
Felan:	I'm definitely lagging.
Felan:	Hi Ann.
Ann:	Hello
Fred:	I got hung up too.
Fred:	Hello Ann.
snowi:	Hi.. definitely laggerist
Ann:	unfortunately, that's an upstream problem (rather than local to our server)
Fred:	Should we log this? And how do we do it?
PatrickM:	hello
Ann:	Kynn's got that taken care of, you don't need to worry about it.
Fred:	Hello.
Fred:	Okay fine.
Rowin:	I'm back :)
SaraJack:	I'm back sorry about that, I had to reboot.... my comp always screws up when I'm doing something..
Felan:	It's automatically logged, Fred. :)
SaraJack:	What time is it?
Fred:	8:35 by my watch.
Felan:	6:33. I suppose we could start. :)
Felan:
PatrickM:	9:35 (EST)
Felan:	I love the gavel. :)
SaraJack:	good my clock isn't wrong, Thank you most kindly
Fred:	Yeah. I was going to use it, but you beat me to it.
Felan:	You can use it too, since we're co-hosting!
Fred:	Nah.
Fred:	But I will officially welcome everyone here.
Felan:	I had a thought that we could all introduce ourselves, or something, after we explain what we're here for. You should start with that, you're senior. :)
Felan:	With explaining, I mean.
Fred:	This is our first monthly Town Hall meeting, so we obviously have no idea what we're doing yet.
Melanie:	finally
SaraJack:	Well, Fred, atleast it's a first for everyone else so you're not left out in the dust.
Fred:	I'm Frederick J. Barnett, and I've been on the Governing Board since February...
Felan:	Precisely! Actually, we've conducted a few meetings here before, but they're much more focused.
Fred:	I'm also the Logo Team Manager, and have been a Guild member since about March, 1996. Felan.
Felan:	I think most of what we intend with this is to allow the membership to talk to the GB, ask us questions, etc. So we're also feeling out the best way to do that. :)
guitarlad:	hello all
Felan:	I'm Leanne Phillips, been on the GB since like April or so. I'm the Guild Secretary, and I've been a member for er some time.
guitarlad:	Are you the Author of Using HTML 4??
Felan:	Ann, Kynn, either of you want to introduce yourselves? Or any of the members already here? :)
Felan:	Me? Or him? I'm not. I'm a horrid writer.
Melanie:	not sure about any members yet
Fred:	I'm not an author.
SaraJack:	I guess I'll introduce myself if no one else is going to at the moment...
Felan:	You're a member, aren't you, Melanie? Go ahead, SaraJack.
Melanie:	no one is counting spelling tonight or writing skills
Ann:	I'm Ann Navarro, GB member and VP Finance & Personnel. I'm third senior GB member, after Gerald and Kynn.
guitarlad:	Oh Because there is a book, Using HTML 4 by Lee Anne Phillips
Melanie:	well yes a member but also helper to Chris
PatrickM:	I'm Patrick McPhillips and I have only been a member for a few weeks, so I am not that familiar with the workings of the HWG yet.
Mandy:	Hello everyone.
guitarlad:	Hello
snowi:	I'm Mary Zerby.. pen name, Sarah Nichole... I've been a member since around April 1996
Mandy:	Is this the Guild's town meeting?
Ann:	sure is Mandy
Fred:	Yes it is Mandy
Mandy:	great!!! What's going on?
Fred:	We just started
SaraJack:	I'm Sara C. Hare, I'm pretty much new at this stuff and am just getting a feel for things. I've been in the guild for (..Thinking..) I'm not sure how long. But I plan to get throughly involved.
Fred:	Doing intros right now.
Bart S:	Hellow everyone. Hi again Mandy! (looks like we both finally got on)
Mandy:	Hey Bart. Great to see you made it.
Felan:	Right now, we're just introducing ourselves so everyone can get to know each other a little. Especially the GBers, but the members too. :)
Mandy:	Well, I'm Mandy...been in the Guild a couple of months...want to get involved in the Marketing aspect.
Bart S:	It looks like the edu.hwg.org server is having problems. Took forever to get on and I have a 28MB/s super-fast connection now.
Felan:	There was a network glitch. I've had trouble to half the places I'm connected to, tonight.
desa:	hi..i thought this chat ended at 9:30
SaraJack:	I'd like to get a T-1 line... those are nice...
guitarlad:	Hey, I'm Ricky. I'm fairly new to HTML, and I have been in the Guild for about a month.
Felan:	Starts at 6:30 Pacific, desa.
Fred:	No, it begins at 9:30 EDT
desa:	oh ok
desa:	anyone have any thoughts on the new membership deals
Bart S:	Is it possible to connect to this server via IRC? Last time I went to one of these meetings, everyone was pretty much in agreement with a system accessible via IRC and the web site also.
Mandy:	I think they're a good idea.....I was demoted to trial member from basic, but if the Guild proves all I think it will, I'll upgrade to paid member.
Felan:	Hey-hey-hey, desa, let me and Fred do the topic-changing, please. :) Fred and I are the GB co-hosts.
Felan:	Should be able to, Bart. One of the options is IRC.
Mandy:	Sorry Frelan.
Felan:	No problem, Mandy, we're all new, as we said. :)
desa:	sorry
Fred:	Moving from Basic to Trial is not a demotion Mandy. Just a rename.
Mandy:	Sorry again.
Melanie:	i like these images
Mandy:	How do you get the images?
SaraJack:	I have a question about that, What's the difference between Trial and basic.... I was reading about that the other day and was a little bewildered about it...
Rowin:	They're great aren;t they! BRB
Felan:	There isn't, Sara. Not generally. As Fred says, from Basic to Trial is just a rename.
SaraJack:	so they are the same exact thing?
Melanie:	i got mine too see
Felan:	The big simplification is that we had two levels of paid memberships, with each of the three levels having different access rights.
Bart S:	Yep.
Mandy:	Oh, duh, I guess you use the "images button"!!!! lol
Felan:	Well... I think we're giving Trial members slightly more access to things, but I can't remember for sure. :)
Bart S:	Personally, I think in general the membership levels is a Good Thing (tm), but if it's money that the Guild wants, IMO there are better ways of getting it.
Mandy:	are u of the marketing persuasion, Bart?
Fred:	the only real difference is that after a year you'll be "asked" to upgrade to a paid level, but it's not required.
SaraJack:	and paid members have even more access to different things?
Ann:	No, Kynn's our VP of Marketing and Outreach
Fred:	Yes. Or better discounts on things like classes and such.
Bart S:	And no offense to Gerald's buddies here, he's great, but I think it would also be better if the services the Guild currently has would continue to get improved. I'd like to see money put into an improved archiving system.
Felan:	The big difference - or did I say this? - is in cutting from two to one paid level of membership. Simplifies our access information, easier for things to understand.
Melanie:	i'm looking forward to the classes myself
Mandy:	Personally, I think the tshirt idea was a great one....gives the Guild exposure off the web.
guitarlad:	Well, I still like the Trial Better. There isn't enough to take $40 out of my pocket.
Ann:	Mandy, they've done that. Some Guild members have spotted each other in malls, etc, because of it!
Felan:	Bart, you're drifting a little from the current topic, which is the membership levels.
Mandy:	I know!
SaraJack:	okay I understand now....
SaraJack:	I'm also looking forward to those classes, I take as many as I can.... I love learning new things....
Bart S:	I think another benefit, and I'm glad Kynn made this a big point, is that you're paying for your membership, i.e. what you get, rather than to get more.
Melanie:	maybe some bumper stickers too?
Bart S:	It'd sure get some exposure on my New Beetle!!!
Ann:	we're considering other products now, we'll see what we come up with :)
Mandy:	Why not? I just put together an employee catalog for my employer which offers all sorts of apparel -- golf towels, hats, etc....it went over well.
guitarlad:	That would be nice
Felan:	Remember that it does cost some money to get these things put together. :)
Bart S:	$3 or so to get the t-shirts made, right?
guitarlad:	Guild Golf Towels, I would use 'em!!!
Melanie:	not bart
SaraJack:	that really would be nice
Felan:	Er...no.
Fred:	Yeah. We have to know we can sell enough of this stuff in order justify making it.
Mandy:	Well, maybe if we were all paid members the Guild would have some cash to sport on catalogs and offering apparel, thus getting the name out more...thus more members....
Melanie:	maybe send out a survey and ask the members what they would like to see in merchendise
Bart S:	Really? Are these luxory t-shirts? Made with threads spun from gold?
Mandy:	Good idea Melanie.
Ann:	An important thing to remember about these items is that they're fund raisers primarily, and "advertising opportunities" second.
guitarlad:	I like Melanies Idea
Felan:	It's more than $3 to get tshirts made - we have to buy the tshirts and get the silkscreening done, etc. It's usually around like $10-$15 to recoup cost on these things, I think - I've never done it myself, just gotten them from someone who did - this is from something other than the Guild.
Ann:	our primary expenditures are on our programs.
SaraJack:	That's a good idea melanie
Melanie:	sounds about right felan. we did family reunion shirts that ran 15 a piece
SaraJack:	sorry if I'm a little slow my computer isn't aagreeing with me this evening...
Melanie:	i'd like to get more involved if i can ever get what i got going more under control
Fred:	The shirts alone are probably more than $3.
Fred:	I'm slow too tonight.
Felan:	Hey, Melanie, that's an idea that you might want to suggest through the suggestion box we recently put in place.
SaraJack:	have you thought of Silk Screening T-Shirts before?
Mandy:	That's right, Fred. The supplier for my company catalog lists anything from $6-$24....depending on weight, pockets, etc.
Melanie:	i'm always slow
Ann:	the Guild shirts are silkscreened Sara.
Felan:	I'm having serious lagging, Fred. :)
Mandy:	Then, you have to pay for the silkscreening or embroidery, whatever.
Melanie:	i'll i do that felan
Bart S:	I'm not really familiar with the t-shirt making process, except I'm in the middle of starting something myself (totally unrelated to the Internet/web design) amd I think it comes to around $5 for t-shirts to be made, unless you get them from someone looking into some profits.
Bart S:	I can ask, though, to at least make sure I'm not going wacko.
Ann:	I think we can safely say that the Guild is pleased with our current supplier for shirts, and that the exact financial details of the purchases are beyond the realm of this discussion.
Felan:	Yeah, the cost of the shirts is pretty well dealt with fine.
SaraJack:	my computer is slow tonight...
Bart S:	OK, just curious myself.
snowi:	caps and tote bags might be good also... I agree we should survey first, though
Bart S:	Here's a thought. The "club" I'm going to get involved in will offer t-shirts and a few other things (including a periodical newsletter) with yearly membership. Would the Guild be able to even consider such a thing?
Felan:	Did we answer all the questions about the membership levels?
Ann:	only with a price increase in the membership fees, Bart.
Felan:	Well, Bart, remember: the tshirts are meant as fundraisers.
PatrickM:	I have a membership question
Felan:	Go ahead, Patrick.
Bart S:	That's where $3-$5 for t-shirts would come in. $10-$15 is on the steep side for $20 membership (our consideration), and I'd think it'd be for regular membership as well.
PatrickM:	Would the Guild consider discounted membership to other organizations?
Fred:	GA PatrickM
guitarlad:	well, what exactly does the membership fees pay for now???
Felan:	I'm not sure what you mean, Patrick.
Ann:	Membership fees go into the general budget fund, guitarland. That pays for computers, internet connections, w3c membership, anything an org. can need to spend money on.
SaraJack:	Is there anything that the guild needs help with at the moment?
SaraJack:	I believe so Felan....
PatrickM:	I am involved with the local STC chapter and I think that HWG membership may be beneficial to some other members.
rowin:	attempt 3
Melanie:	poor thing chris
Felan:	Sara, we can almost always use volunteers in several of our programs.
PatrickM:	Would HWG consider organization or corporate membership rates?
guitarlad:	Oh okay, and it's lad, not land
Ann:	sorry about that, one letter too many ;).
Fred:	except Logo Team! I'm full!
Ann:	Fred's about the only one that is!
Felan:	Heya, Tertius!
Tertius:	(Hi all!)
Ann:	Patrick, we do have org/corporate memberships. A representative can contact the treasurer for further info (treasurer@hwg.org)
SaraJack:	I want to volunteer but I'm not sure what to help with or even if I can be of help
Melanie:	there is always somewhere that needs help. how long have you been a member sara?
PatrickM:	Thanks. I will check it out and bring it up at our next STC meeting.
Felan:	Sara, you should write to volunteer@hwg.org, where we coordinate all those volunteering needs like who's willing and which programs need it. :)
SaraJack:	Thanks a bunch Felan...
Fred:	We have a web page too asking for volunteers, but I don't have the url handy, or memorized.
Bart S:	I think it would be a good idea if the archiving system would get an update. Faster archiving and a better search engine. I once copied a subject line and it wouldn't even find it when I tried searching. The LG program would also benefit from faster archiving (Judi, for example, had problems and I had to send her -Techniques mail because the archives weren't up to date).
Melanie:	here is the URL http://www.hwg.org/opcenter/volunteer/
Ann:	thanks Melanie.
Melanie:	no problem Ann
rowin:	Actually, the LGP is almost full too. Just one or two vacancies left.
Fred:	Thank you Melanie.
Bart S:	Kudos to Kynn for the new front page. Puts everything right up front, and I don't have to dig deep to find anything (well kudos to Kynn too for the bookmarks he made, I don't have to do much diging with those).
Melanie:	is that it?? seems we should have more.
SaraJack:	Fred- see I didn't know there was one because I haven't had time to browse through the whole hwg site...plus my doctor has really limited my comp time due to my migraines
Melanie:	must be cause the members are behaving themselves :-)
guitarlad:	Oh yeah. I really like the new start page.
Felan:	Migraines, aie. :)
Ann:	Actually anyone that wants to volunteer and doesn't see a job, they should email our volunteer coordinator *anyway*, Allen is good at finding spots for people.
Felan:	Bart, write up a suggestion for the suggestion box about it, with some specifics of what you think has trouble in the archiving system.
SaraJack:	so when I e-mail Volunteer@hwg.org, I'll be e-mailing Allen? I like to put a name instead of something stupid...
Ann:	Yes, that's his name Sara :)
Fred:	Yes Sara.
Felan:	Yeah, Allen Gould is the volunteer coordinator.
Felan:	Anyone else have any opinions on the new homepage? I know I like it a lot. :)
SaraJack:	Felan- yes migraines, and my doc thinks it's because of spending so much time in front of the computer....from the screen, because that's when they only happen...
Melanie:	it is different but i personally don't think it's at straight forward as the old page
Ann:	Lots of new things on there too...the new classes that are open for registration, and the bookstore too.
snowi:	I think the new homepage is great :)
guitarlad:	Everything is easier to get to with the new one, no digging.
Tertius:	I like the way the columns group similar items...good job, that!
Ann:	yup Tertius, Kynn did a good job.
SaraJack:	yes the page is nice...
Felan:	Really, Melanie? I have the same sort of feel for it as guitarlad and Tertius, it's much easier to find parts of the site that I'm looking for.
guitarlad:	Hooray for Kynn!!
Melanie:	takes time to look around but eventually will find what i'm looking for
Felan:	We don't always hear responses other than 'ugh' when we make changes, so it's nice to hear when people appreciate it. :) Lots of people only send mail when they _don't_ like something.
Melanie:	i guess i'm just set in my ways Felan but as time goes on i'll find my way around it again
Melanie:	i know that feeling Felan
Felan:	Yeah, changes are hard to get used to.
Fred:	Yeah, so if you ever do like something let us know!!
Fred:
SaraJack:	I'll do that next time Fred...
guitarlad:	Me too
Melanie:	i like lots of things Fred and most I can't say here LOL
snowi:	me 3, Fred :)
Tertius:	I miss the left-hand icons, but now it look less linear (bookish) and more vibrant.
Melanie:	i'll get use to it and like it as time goes on. i can bend when I need to
Melanie:	Well Fred I like the LPG
guitarlad:	How do you use the images????
SaraJack:	I just want to say I like this meeting in general...(Sorry I know it came out of left field somewhere).. I think it will help everyone get to know the Guild better and even more involved because you're acctually talking to a person not looking at a page....
Fred:	Double click on them.
guitarlad:	Oh, Thanks!!
Tertius:	So is this the start of a new look/overhaul for all HWG pages?
Melanie:	too bad not many other members showed Sara
Tertius:	If so,
Bart S:	I hope so.
SaraJack:	yes that was ashame melanie....
snowi:	Do you have a current update on the number of members?.. just curious
Bart S:	from me two
Melanie:	Sara most of the GB members are accessable
Fred:	I think a complete update of the entire site has been discussed.
Ann:	The number at the top of the main page is generally current to the last month. We're a bit over 70,000 now.
Felan:	Anyone have any other questions? Send a private message to me or Fred to let us know what it is, and we'll go through things.
snowi:	ok, thank you, Ann :)
Felan:	And Sara, I hope so - hope that this does get more people involved and knowing what's going on.
guitarlad:	The guild gained 20,000 since I joined!
Melanie:	is the meetings going to be a monthly thing?
Fred:	Yes Melanie.
guitarlad:	Good
Fred:	Though likely with different hosts.
Felan:	I think so, Melanie. We might vary the time and day sometimes, so we can get people from overseas to them, for instance. And different GBers will be hosts different months, yeah.
Melanie:	that's good. everyone should be a host so we all can talk to them too like sara said
SaraJack:	That would be good also, you'll get to know different people who help keep the guild going...
guitarlad:	Is the Chat line open 24/7, for the guild Members??
Felan:	I'm hoping that different program managers can come, too, and explain what their programs are like - what they do, etc.
Felan:	In fact, I should add that to what we plan for next time. :)
Fred:	Yes it is.
SaraJack:	Felan that would be great....it would help members fully understand the guild more...
guitarlad:	That's what I thought
Tertius:	OK Felan! jes' say when...
PatrickM:	that sounds like a great idea
Bart S:	Perhaps we can have special meeting "events" organized for the meetings. i.e. "Meet the List Guides" or "Meet the Guild Members".
Felan:	You want to, Tertius? Doesn't have to be very long, but kind of what your volunteers do, etc, would be neat.
guitarlad:	That would be good
Felan:	And besides Fred, I think you're the only manager present right now. :)
Melanie:	are you sure you want everyone to know your a LG Bart?
Bart S:	Maybe even "Meet the -Business List Members" so people can ask members of a list they're not on what they think of it. Noise lever, usage, etc.
Tertius:	Can do! (JC-RFP motto!!!)
Melanie:	depends on what areas you're talking about felan
SaraJack:	That's a good idea...
Bart S:	Level I mean, not lever. : )
Melanie:	could go that way too bart
Felan:	Re, Kynn.
Fred:	Though how you would get others to know someone's here is a problem.
Fred:	Testing
SaraJack:	What exactly do you mean fred?
Melanie:	recieving fred
rowin:	I suppose you could use the Announce list (although limited coverage)
Felan:	Go ahead, then, Tertius.
Felan:	Well, that's another thing - if you guys don't know about the Announce list, you might want to subscribe to it. All sorts of stuff goes out over that list.
Bart S:	If we go for the events during meetings thing, I'd be curious to know what "Meet the -Graphics List Members" people would think. Sometimes I wonder if people know what 'Graphics' means. Sigh....
guitarlad:	I'll do that
rowin:	How about a different guest HWG officer for each week mentioned in the newsletter.
Tertius:	Hi all, I'm RFP Manager--meaning the Requests for Proposals part of the JC (Jobs and Contracts) area.
Bart S:	I haven't recieved an announcement on the Townhall Meeting. Chris, being the friendly Aussie that he is, had to tell me about it.
SaraJack:	where is the announce list?
Tertius:	We went live with RFP in March, the volunteers moderate incoming postings requesting proposals for web work and related things.
rowin:
Felan:	hwg-announce, Sara, there should be subscription info on http://www.hwg.org/lists/hwg-announce/...I think.
Tertius:	We check postings against current rules, and approve, or deny the post, usually with help to the poster to resend a qualifying RFP.
Felan:	These are short-term contracts, not permanent jobs, Tertius?
SaraJack:	Felan is that the newsletter?
Melanie:	You beat me to it Felan
Tertius:	Correct, Felan. Not permanent, must be contract work, although some have had 1 year plus durations
Tertius:	I have 6 currently active moderators (we will be needing some more soon!) and 2 managers--Damon (JC Manager) and myself, filling in as needed.
Felan:	No, hwg-announce is posted to more frequently. We send,er, well, announcements. Of job openings, of motions the Board is voting on (so you can follow what we're doing), that sort of thing. New programs are also announced there as well as the newsletter.
Felan:	It gives us a quicker way of getting the news out to those interested in that sort of news.
Felan:	Tertius, who has asking to viewing the RFPs?
SaraJack:	Felan, oh okay....
Tertius:	The number of postings to RFP has slowly been increasing, and we hope it gets even busier when the word gets out about access to the expertise of the Guild membership
Tertius:	We have active postings, viewable by Full Members, and the archives of expired posts are available to any member.
PatrickM:	So I would assume that a member would submit a proposal to work one of these contract jobs?
Felan:	Er. Access. I'm so glad you understood that bad wording of mine, Tertius. I feel silly. :)
Tertius:	I'm seeing about a dozen or so visits per day where members request of emailed info on one or more posts.
Bart S:	So trial members don't actually get to try out the additial ex-Plus (hmm... I'm getting the urge to insert an exclamation point in there, courtesy of Microsoft) services?
SaraJack:	Well, I must turn in for tonight..... This was a good idea once again, and it did answer some of my questions.. Thanks and G'Night all! //Smiley
Felan:	Trial membership - I thought we'd clarified all of that - is to try out the majority of the services of the Guild. That's why they have access to the expired archives for the RFP, for instance. But the reason Full members are called Full is because they have Full access to everything.
Bart S:	Night Sara (Jack?).
Melanie:	thanks for stopping by tonight Sara
Felan:	Glad it worked, Sara. Thanks for coming!
PatrickM:	Nite, Sara
Bart S:	OK, thanks, Felan.
snowi:	Good Night SaraJack
Tertius:	So far, the number of posts is still relatively small (thanks, Felan--took my other words!) so we're also using the Full members to test it out...
Felan:	Anyone have any more questions for Tertius about the RFP program?
PatrickM:	Yes --
PatrickM:	Being a new member, I am not really familiar with the RFPs
Bart S:	Some people have forwarded me RFPs, even though I can't access it myself since I'm not a Full member, can they do that?
PatrickM:	From what I gather, I would request an RFP, submit a proposal for it, and if successful, get the contract job. Is that about right?
Felan:	Aie!
Felan:	He'll be back soon, I hope.
Melanie:	bart: you can forward it on or tell them where to send it to
Ann:	Bart, you mean someone is accessing RFP and sending you those postings? Or they're sending you something they want posted?
Tertius:	(oops! got locked...) Sorry Bart, what's this?
Bart S:	But can a Full member forward it to a Trial or non-member? I don't ask people to send them my way, but people who know my work or were my clients forward the RFPs to me (Tertius, just wondering if that's OK).
Tertius:	I'll defer to Kynn on that one if I may...
Felan:	Well, Bart, it's not really appropriate.
Tertius:	although that was not the intention as I understood it...
Ann:	Otherwise, they wouldn't be restricted, would they? :)
Felan:	Not much we can do to stop it, but the intention is that only Full members have 'access', eg are able to see/respond to, these RFPs.
Bart S:	Ann: person A knows I do graphic/web design, is a Full member, saw an RFP for a webmaster position, and forwards it to me (i.e. wanting me to get more work). Most of my clients are like that. After I do a little work for them, they'll forward anything that would get me more work to me.
Ann:	As Felan has already said Bart, no, that's not in the spirit of the program. If you're taking advantage of RFP opportunities, you should be a full member.
rowin:	What the members send via private email is beyond our control. However the initial purpose is preserved.
Felan:	Well, not as such, Rowin. :) Not if the Full members are breaking the spirit of it.
rowin:	Bart cannot check for himself - he does not have the immediate access which is the advantage of the Full Membership
Felan:	I'd suggest you ask them not to, Bart, and point out the reasons it's restricted.
Bart S:	Right, Ann, I agree (and I will become a full member as soon as I get $$$, but have way too much stuff to pay for, like that New Beetle I mentioned earlier).
Felan:	Then he should get full member access, Rowin. :) That's part of the point.
Tertius:	Next on the agenda is the PSO (Professional Service Offers) service, a couple of months or so away, depending on fine-tuning RFP <grin>
Ann:	Why you may not have money (at 14 with a car?) isn't really the concern. The concern is that you're not a full member, and are a staff member of the Guild. It would be best to honor the intent of the program. :)
rowin:	Agreed - I was just trying to point out that relying on someone to send you that info is not as good as full membership
Fred:	I'm back!
Ann:	Right, rowin.
Ann:	thanks :)
Ann:	Welcome back Fred!
Bart S:	How is PSO different than the VD program (that reminds me, I need to fill out the rest of that contract, have it signed, and send it in to the VDP people)?
rowin:	BTW Rowin = Chris
Tertius:	Then Jobs Available (JA) and also Jobs Wanted (JW), which will complete the JC area service rollouts.
Ann:	Chris....higgs?
Kynn:
rowin:	yep
Ann:	ah! makes sense now ;)
Kynn:
Felan:	Well, it would be best to honor it even if you don't volunteer for us, but especially as a staffer. :)
Melanie:
Kynn:
PatrickM:	I will assume my questions are being ignored because I should have known the answer before I came into the room. A simply acknowledgement would have been nice, though.
Bart S:	More BTW, Chris Higgs is an Aussie, and I'm sure everyone else knows that they're really friendly.
Felan:	Ah-ha! Hi, Chris. :)
Felan:	Er...which, Patrick?
Ann:	Patrick, it's easy for a question to slide by occasionally. It's not malicious.
Felan:	You asked some while Tertius was disconnected, I know; you need to repeat those now that Tertius is back.
Felan:	And as Ann said, it's hard to keep track of everything.
Kynn:	Patrick, could you restate your question? I missed it.
Tertius:	All ears, here, for any questions...and I'll see if I have any answers!!!
rowin:	espescially hard to keep track when your reading your email at the same time
guitarlad:	Well, i have to leave now. Thanks for the Hospitality!
PatrickM:	Do I understand that, as full member I could respond to an RFP, and if accepted, recieve the contract for the job?
Fred:	No he's not. :-)
Felan:	Whoops, there goes Tertius again.
Ann:	we can't help if you can't multitask chris ;)
Tertius:	<sheesh...> I hope I stay this time!
Kynn:	Full members can access RFPs, yes.
Felan:	I think that's how it works, Patrick.
Kynn:	Receiving the contract depends on the party giving the contract.
PatrickM:	What is an example of the income one could expect from working one of the contract jobs?
Fred:	I don't think we can discuss that. Legal reasons.
PatrickM:	OK
Ann:	It's not that, Fred, it's completely up to the company/person that is requesting the proposal.
PatrickM:	I assume that it is mostly HTML-related work?
Ann:	The Guild isn't involved in the transaction.
Felan:	All depends on the RFP-ing company, Patrick.
Fred:	Better safe than sorry Ann. :-)
Kynn:	Patrick, it depends on the contract being offered.
Tertius:	Details of the RFP Service can be found at: http://www.hwg.org/services/jc/rfp/ for those interested in the hows, whys, and wherefores...
PatrickM:	I have done much HTML work for my employer over the last 18 months and was considering trying to find something to supplement my current income. This sounds like it might fit the bill.
Felan:	Very well might be it, Patrick. Take a look at that page Tertius mentioned.
Melanie:	can't beat making your own hours // thumbsup
Tertius:	Fred, Ann, the price issue is one of the items we check for--we don't permit that discussion in the RFP (unless it's for volunteer work)
Felan:	Wise, very wise, Tertius. :)
Felan:	Any other questions about the RFP program?
Ann:	Nods at Tertius. Yup, it's between the offerer and contractor.
PatrickM:	Thank you all for your kind responses.
Tertius:	Thanks for all that have shown interest in this area!
Felan:	Thanks for introducing it, Tertius. That's great info to have and make sure get disseminated. :)
bart s:	Did anyone experience problems with this chat program?
Melanie:	yes at first
Fred:	I'm always having trouble with it.
bart s:	I just got Melanie's message repeating over and over and over again for ever.
Melanie:	LOL that happened to me with Sara earlier
snowi:	no problems here... yet :) --- brb
PatrickM:	no problems here
Felan:	I haven't had anything at all like that.
PatrickM:	brb
Felan:	I get occasional network problems, but, well, those aren't the client's fault. :)
Melanie:	nothing since i've been back.
Felan:	Anyone have any other questions to bring up?
bart s:	I don't get those anymore. Not on a 28MB/s connection. : )
bart s:	Could we get this thing working in IRC and this web page thing?
Tertius:	Felan, I don't know if it's been asked before, but: 1. the hwg mail has been erratic recently
Tertius:	and 2. some of the rfp lists have been hit fairly heavy with spam lately
Felan:	We know. We're looking into the mail thing.
rowin:	Yeah - we all copped the SPAM!
Felan:	And, well, I'm not sure there's any way to keep any of our role addresses from being spammed. I get tons of them.
Madman:	HI All What did I miss???
Tertius:	Do we pursue the egregious ones?
Melanie:	same here Felan. even personal mail
Felan:	Not as a Guild, but as an individual you can.
rowin:	If you want to take the time - go right ahead!
Felan:	The Guild just doesn't have the resources or the mandate to do it.
Ann:	for personally addressed stuff.
bart s:	Maybe it could be hooked up to the membership database and only members can send the messages to them?
Fred:	We'd need a whole new set of volunteers!! :-)
rowin:	That's fine for the public lists - and in place already Bart
Melanie:	I'm taken already Fred...you'd have to dig deeper for more
Felan:	And a whole new mandate, Fred. :)
rowin:	Not much help for the LG addresses for members having problems subscribing
Fred:	Mandate's easy. Man power isn't.
Melanie:	or unsubscribing
Felan:	I disagree - our mandate, 50whichever, is educational, not pursuing-Internet-spammers. :)
bart s:	Here's a thought: guest membership. A non-member sends a specific command line for say the -Techniques list, and recieves a days or a weeks worth of mail.
Tertius:	...or digest?
Felan:	Mmm. I dunno, Bart.
Kynn:	Can't you do that from the archives?
Felan:	They do have access to the archives, you know.
Madman:	Sound's good to me. Why not let a guest have that access. But limit it to one use to one e-mail address
bart s:	Yep, digest could be an option. So they can get a feel for how the Guild mail comes in, and not getting a panic attack when they forget how to unsubscribe.
Fred:	For now. We did vote to restrict them eventually.
Felan:	Just the search engines, Fred. :)
bart s:	Yep, guest membership would work when the archives will be restricted.
Melanie:	well folks i need to get out of here and get the kids ready for bed. it's been interesting and looking forward to the next one. nite all and great meeting you all
Felan:	Mmmm. Again, I don't know that it will be necessary. It's not that hard to get a membership. :)
Felan:	Thanks for coming, Melanie!
bart s:	So people will still be able to see the archives of the picked mailing list, but won't be able to search it with the restriction?
Melanie:	see ya next time Felan
snowi:	Night Melanie
PatrickM:	nite, Melanie
Fred:	Yes Bart.
bart s:	I would REALLY be nice if there was a vacation switch when someone goes on vacation and doesn't want to recieve all the HWG mail. Subscribing/Unsubscribing/Resubscribing is a real pain.
bart s:	It would, not I would (sorry).
damonz:	Howdy
Tertius:	hiya Damon!
Fred:	I don't think it's all that big a deal Bart.
Felan:	Bart, you can make that suggestion through the suggestion box - this sort of meeting is more for discussion of issues and asking questions of the Board, not specific details like that.
Fred:	Send an unsuscribe message, then resub when you get back.
rowin:	No - what would be more useful was a way to unsubscribe from multiple lists
bart s:	It kind of is if you're subscribed to lots of lists, and..... (wondering if the next part would be an OK thing to say)....
Felan:	You can, Rowin...I thought.
Madman:	I think these details are out of place here PPL,
Felan:	Send mail to majordomo@mail.hwg.org (I think is the machine), body several lines of unsubscribe <listname>.
Felan:	Indeed, Madman.
rowin:	works for all lists but -servers :)
PatrickM:	I must be going too. As a new member, I look forward to learning more about HWG and will probably become a full member. I also look forward to the next meeting. Thank you all.
Fred:	Night Patrick.
Felan:	Thanks for coming, Patrick.
Tertius:	Bye, Patrick!
damonz:	Bye patrick
Felan:	Anyone have any other questions? :)
bart s:	Bye Pat.
damonz:	I really gotta get here earlier next time... :(
snowi:	Night Patrick
PatrickM:	good night!
Felan:	We had Tertius go over a brief intro to the RFP program, Damon. Gonna get another program manager to do the same next time, I think.
bart s:	I'm going to get going now. Bye everyone.
damonz:	yeah... he told me... :) I have this darn near impossible deadlines at work and have been putting in insaine hours... i'll be ontime forthe next one. Ir eally wanted to be here earlier. I'm taking a "dinner" break right now...
Fred:	Night Bart.
damonz:	bye bart
snowi:	Bye Bart
bart s:	Bye
damonz:	For those of you who dont know me, I'm Damon, Jobs & Contracts Manager.
Madman:	I Am Madman, Web Page Designer
Madman:	Nice to meet you
Felan:	No other questions?
Madman:	I have one
damonz:	nice to meet you too.
Felan:	Yah, Madman?
Madman:	I have been looking for a offical copy of the HTML standards. Screen Res, colors. All the thing's that make a page acceptible to the surfing public.
Madman:	And what's the stand on the Netscape Vs. IE browser war
damonz:	(btw, will a log of the meeting be available?)
Felan:	There's no stance by the Guild on any of the browser, HTML editor, blah blah etc wars - those are matters of personal preference as far as the Guild is concerned.
jim:	M, http://www.w3.org
Fred:	Screen Res. and colors are pretty much up to the designer, though you should make your pages look okay at low resolutions (640x480 is considered the minimum usually)
Felan:	I don't know if there are any *standards* like that, but the accessibility guidelines at http://www.cast.org/ (I think) and on the w3.org site under the WAI (Web Accessibility Initiative) will have some general info on how to choose some things.
Madman:	K, I usualy stick with 800 X 600, and 256 colors. As for the browser war's I try to stay away from tag's that a browser will use better than another. I don't use them
Fred:	Good. You should always write to the W3C standards, not a specific browser.
Felan:	That's probably a good idea, yeah.
Madman:	How about ver of a browser.
Felan:	No big standards there either. :) Some people can't upgrade, some don't know how, some don't feel like it.
damonz:	ACTION must bow out and get back to work... another 830am - 3am day! :( See y'all later
Fred:	Now if you're looking for a reference on the W3C standards, http://www.htmlhelp.com/ has great ones available for free.
Madman:	I have been going with generation 4 level commands, since gen 5 is on the way
snowi:	bye damonz
Tertius:	c ya Damon!
damonz:	laters
Fred:	I'm still at 3.2 standard.
Madman:	Really. Strange, With the enhanced Java support in gen 4, I figured everyone who could would switch
Fred:	Haven't found a good program that writes 4.0, and I will not use Notepad and write *everything* myself. :-)
snowi:	lol.. it's not difficult, Fred :)
Felan:	I don't even use Netscape at home except when I *have* to use it.
Madman:	I do, Well SuperNote Tab. Kinda like Notepad.
Felan:	Or IE. I never use IE.
Madman:	What do you use, Mosaic
Tertius:	I do 4.0 trans, and check that it gracefully degrades...
Felan:	Opera.
Felan:	That's the thing - not everyone has java.
Madman:	Never heard of it.
Felan:	Or even wants it.
Tertius:	and some with it don't like what it potentially can do, and rarely use it.
Madman:	true. But out of the 55 Million plus surfer's. How many use IE or Netscape
Felan:	I dunno. I don't care. :)
Tertius:	<grin> IE here...
Fred:	NS here.
snowi:	both :)

End of meeting.