HTML Writers Guild Guild Operations Events 981022 Meeting

Town Hall Meeting - 22 October 1998

(What follows is a log of the meeting, automatically generated by the eShare software.)

brainstorms: Salutations!
Chris: G'Day - I was sleeping smiley
brainstorms: That's okay - I'm reloading a database & editing perl.
brainstorms: Which client is best for this? Java Lite or HTML
Chris: Hi Kathy
KathyKolb: hiya :>
Chris: I prefer the full Java or ActiveX - I'm on ActiveX now.
Chris: I guess your using something like NN3
brainstorms: Think I'll switch to Java - back in a bit
Chris: Hey Brain - are you still there?
Chris: You need to log out, not just exit the browser, otherwise you'll have problems getting back on!
KathyKolb: he's stuck !
KathyKolb: in limbooooo
KathyKolb: what server platform do you use chris?
Chris: yep - I've been stuck that way myself when I haven't logged out properly
Chris: The only solution is to create another user name or wait 20mins until it times out.
KathyKolb: crud
Chris: My system is Win95
Chris: I'm using IE4 for this so I can get the Active X chat client.
KathyKolb: what web servers do you use?
Chris: You mean as in ISP?
Chris: Sorry, I get it now
Chris: PWS on my system
Chris: Plus two accounts on Unix servers
brainstorms: FYI - I'm back.
brainstorms: FYI - I'm back.
Chris: Oh - and IIS on an NT network for an intranet
Chris: Welcome back exclaim
KathyKolb: nice splash there
KathyKolb: do you have IIS running for frontpage?
brainstorms: Both java clients gave me security errors so I'm back to HTML (which if you hit reload frame can dup msgs) <g>
Chris: No - had too many problems with FP - I stick with hand coding for most things
Chris: Still only us early birds here! I suppose the powers that be will appear soon enough.
KathyKolb: what's your urls chris
Chris: Still under development mostly
Chris: Basically inherited a bad site - most of the bad part is gone now, but there is still a lot of work needed to fill in the gaps.
KathyKolb: do you work for the UNiversity?
KathyKolb: afk
Chris: Yep - Lecturer in Food Technology
brainstorms: What is Food Technology?
Chris: product manufacture
Chris: also includes product development, engineering, marketing, heaps of stuff
Chris: About the only field where you can eat your experiments
brainstorms: Interesting.
KathyKolb: hehe
KathyKolb: soooo this is a town meeting .. hmmm
KathyKolb: always wnated to soo what one was like but am ususally out when they have them
Chris: Normally the GB members are here by now - don't know what is keeping them.
brainstorms: Welcome!
ljwolfe: Hello. I'm adjusting from just being ion IRC a little while ago. Different interface :-).
Chris: certainly is winking
ljwolfe: So, what's up in here?
Chris: Well, we were just waiting for the organisers to show up
Chris: I hope they haven't mixed the time zones up - its always embarassing showing up an hour late!
ljwolfe: I'm pretty sure I put it in my calendar right.
ljwolfe: //ImageName clover
ljwolfe: Hm, that didn't work.
Felan: oy
Felan: hi guys.
Chris: Good morning
KathyKolb: *wave*
ljwolfe: Did anyone else see that image, or was it just me?
ljwolfe: hat didn't I mean.
Chris: I just saw "image" in curly braces
ljwolfe: That's what I saw.
ljwolfe: /image clover
ljwolfe: Nope.
Felan: gavel
Felan: It's // and then the name of the image.
Felan: :fooey
Felan: "Two slashes.
ljwolfe: //Clover
ljwolfe: smiley
ljwolfe: Got it. :-)
Chris: Yeaaaa!!! happycomp
KathyKolb: idea
KathyKolb: wheee :)
Chris: Sorry, you mentioned order Leanne?
ljwolfe: It's slash slash name-of-image
ljwolfe: peace
ljwolfe: OK, I'll be quiet now :-).
Felan: Actually, no, since no one's here yet...
ljwolfe: How many usually show up? This is my first time here.
Chris: That's OK - I think everyone is having fun anyway
Felan: Well, we usually don't get as many as we'd like.
ljwolfe: This seems to be my day to be in chats. It's International WebGrrls Day, and I've been IRCing with grrls from several continents.
Felan: This is one of the primary ways we want our members to get used to using for talking to us, at least about 'general' things.
ljwolfe: Can these chats be logged?
Felan: I believe they are automatically, and one of the previous ones is available. But I forget where.
Felan: I've been sick these last two weeks, so I'm lucky I remembered I was supposed to be host of this one. :)
ljwolfe: I meant is there a way for us to log them.
ljwolfe: heart Hope you're feeling better.
KathyKolb: I'd like to find a chat room I can hang out in as I work .... working alone can drive you goofy
Felan: Oh, a way for you to. Not that I know of offhand.
Felan: We're swtiching to WebX, and that might have a better way.
ljwolfe: I'm looking forward to alone again - my first grader has been home for three weeks.
Felan: So... I suppose I could start. I'm Leanne, the Secretary, who're all you folks? :)
Kynn: Hi folks.
KathyKolb: Hi Kynn
Felan: Hi Kynn.
Kynn: Did I miss anything? :)
whirrett: Hi Kynn. How's the arm?
Felan: No, not really, Kynn. I'm just suggesting people introduce themselves.
Kynn: Still broken. :-p
ljwolfe: Should we be doing intros?
Kynn: Hi everyone, I'm Kynn, I'm the president of the Guild, have been on the board since summer 1996.
Kynn: My wife and I run Idyll Mountain Internet, and next Monday I start at Harvey Mudd College as webmaster.
Kynn: I have 4 Tibetan Mastiffs ( see ) which are big fuzzy doggies.
Felan: Sure, everyone introduce themselves. I want to know who all you are - except Kynn :) - as well as you knowing who I am.
ljwolfe: Kynn, we're local. I'm in Rialto.
Kynn: Kewl. :)
KathyKolb: I'm Kathy, run Kolb Net Works, and owe the HWG much gratitude for all the info they have given me the last 2 years
ljwolfe: My name is Lorena, and I'm still trying to make the jump from volunteer to paid web developing.
Felan: That's cool to hear, Kathy. We hardly ever hear the good compliments. :)
whirrett: My name is Lisa and I have been a member since May of this year. I am a paralegal and mother of a five year old boy.
Kynn: (where is Rialto?)
Chris: My name is Chris Higgs. Non-computer related activities include Lecturer at the University of Melbourne, and a volunteer firefighter for our local area.
Chris: Today I'm here in my capacity of List Guide Manager, to answer any questions the members may have.
ljwolfe: If you mean the Harvey Mudd in Claremont, I'm just your side of San Bernardino.
Kynn: Yep! Okay, gotcha.
Felan: Lecturer, what subject, Chris?
Chris: Food Technology, specialising in dairy product manufacture
Felan: Keen.
Felan: (Says the girl from Vermont, whose family owns a dairy farm...)
Felan: I do a bunch of things for the Guild - Secretary, one of the VPs, and thusly a Governing Board member. But I don't make my living at html either. :)
Felan: Normally, we don't come to these with a particular agenda; they're for you guys to ask us questions about how the Guild runs, what the Board's doing, etc.
ljwolfe: Seems to me that's getting harder. Everyone wants Java, C++, Perl, Unix, or some such frowny
Chris: It helps I think - not making a living out of web design, lets you take a more objective role in most of the disputes that arise.
ljwolfe: That frowny looks angrier than I intended.
Felan: That's part of the reasoning, yah, Chris. :)
Felan: Everyone does want all sorts of things. Glitz glitz glitz, even for normal pages. :)
ljwolfe: I'm trying to take the other track, and promote the elegance of simplicity.
Felan: Do any of you have any questions to ask us?
Felan: Simplicity is good - you can do things that are simple but elegant and pretty.
Chris: I guess my multimedia tendencies are showing here, but I place a lot more importance on site design and content before all the glitz and glamour.
ljwolfe: I'm also concious of older browsers and adaptive teck, which don't handle bells and whistles as well.
Felan: My brother recently had to come up with a simpler design than a web company did for the company he works at. They gave the owner glitz, like she wanted, but that's not what _worked_ for the site.
ljwolfe: Content is paramount. I mean, without it, what's the point?
whirrett: Would it be appropriate for the list guide of each list to post a meeting reminder the night before this meeting to remind the members of the meeting?
Felan: Now, that's especially important, lj. The good designer - in my opinion anyway - doesn't have to pay a LOT of attention to such issues - but paying just a little gives a huge return. You don't have to view your page in thousands of browser/hardware combos; just validate and view it in a couple standard ones, for instance.
Chris: And step 2 is how the content is navigated. All the content in the world won't do much good if people can't find what they want.
Felan: I dunno. I've been thinking about that. We publish it in -news, and then a reminder on -announce...
Felan: It may just be that far fewer people care about the way the Guild runs, as long as it does run, than we like to think (and have been told). :)
Felan: Indeed, Chris.
ljwolfe: BRB....
whirrett: I must confess that I am a list guide in training and I almost forgot it...
Kynn: To be honest, Felan, that's my hypothesis. If I weren't on the Board, _I_ wouldn't care how things run. The people who _are_ interested are a vast minority.
Kynn: Unfortunately.
Chris: I don't think it should be for the List Guides to remind the members individually. That is what Announce is for, or GB announcements to the lists
Felan: I really sincerely thought that there would be more people here, after the forums and all that.
Chris: I agree with Kynn - the members just aren't interested in how the organisation runs, so long as it runs.
Kynn: That's how I am with organizations I'm in, at least, Chris. :)
Kynn: Besides this.
Chris: Even after all the disruption on Business, you can see how little most of the membership really care.
Kynn: If it gives me what I want, I don't have any reason to waste time with the behind the scenes stuff.
KathyKolb: may I just say then,
Kynn: I dunno if I'd say the members don't _care_.
KathyKolb: how important this org is to some of us quiet ones
Kynn: I think they do care -- but are generally getting their expectations met.
KathyKolb: I joined the guild in late 95 / early 96
KathyKolb: when I learned the code....
KathyKolb: and learned so much from so many helpful people
ljwolfe: I don't in here often, but when I got the notice for this I decided to drop by and check it out.
KathyKolb: that I started a web design company
Kynn: Oh, by the way, both Chris and I are glad you all came. :)
Kynn: We don't mean to sound negative -- just reflective.
KathyKolb: Kynn - I remeber looking at your site early on - when it had those green trees and thinking .. wow!
Chris: Yep exclaim
Kynn: You were wowed by the idyllmtn green trees? Yikes. :)
brainstorms: IMHO, a reminder the day before wouldn't hurt.
KathyKolb: someday maybe I can make groovey green trees that aren't jaggied!
Kynn: Mine are jaggied, I think
KathyKolb: along with the amny books and magazines I got, the LISTS have been a classroom for me
KathyKolb: the digests now (that time is compressed) are such help
whirrett: I have always intended to come before but got busy with motherhood things and forgot.
ljwolfe: Kathy, how did you get your company started?
Kynn: Kathy, can I quote you in marketing material? :)
KathyKolb: for us solo folks working alone in a room - the lists bring comrades into our workspace, helping me feel less isolated
Felan: Kathy, that sort of thing is what I love to hear, about how much you've learned. It helps us feel that we on the Board are doing something useful.
KathyKolb: in our small rural setting, there is LITTLE expereince in this new media world, yet into my emailbox comes wisdom from mostly friendly people
KathyKolb: the HWG has been one of the MOST HELPFUL things in my companies development. period.
Felan: I've learned a lot myself, since I started in the Guild, but I like to hear about it from some of the 'quiet members'.
KathyKolb: <= sits back down
Felan: Watch our egos swell. :)
Chris: I think it is important for the GB to set out their aims at the start of each year - like you did with your new year's list this year Kynn
Chris: It is easy to overlook the progressive improvements
Kynn: Have you looked at the list lately? :)
Kynn: I'm pretty pleased with our accomplishments thus far
Chris: Looking back at a wish list like that highlights what progress you have made.
Chris: I agree - things are going well.
Chris: Some things work, some don't, but you don't know unless you try them.
Felan: We've definitely made serious improvement in a lot of areas.
Kynn: There's something I'd like to get member feedback on:
Kynn: What next? question
Felan: So _can_ we use your comments in Marketing material, Kathy? :)
KathyKolb: certainly, I owe HWG a lot
ljwolfe: Kathy, how did you get your company started? I'm trying, but can't seem to get a break.
whirrett: What next?? More classes!!!
Kynn: As Chris says, it's important for the Guild leadership to set direction -- with member input, naturally. I'd like to know what things you might like to see from the Guild in the next year or so.
KathyKolb: I made a web site for our local computer club, enjoied doing it, so started a company
KathyKolb: joined the local chamber, did some free stuff for organizations and a radio station for 6 months then let them decide whether or not to hire me which they did...
Chris: For whoever wanted the past town meeting logs:
Felan: Classes are good, eh? I'm very pleased with most people's reaction to the classes, too.
whirrett: I learned so much in the Intro to HTML class, things I thought I knew already but found out I was a little off base.
Kynn: whirrett, some of the coolest people are in my stylesheets class, I'm enjoying just getting to meet/interact (virtually) withthem. :)
whirrett: The CSS class is proving to be extremely helpful.
KathyKolb: just kept being involved with community, phone starts ringin, biggest problem now is handling growth
Kynn: Are you in the class, whirrett?
whirrett: You can read the bits and peices on the lists but the classes help to bring it all together.
Kynn: I don't recognize 'whirrett' as a name I know, but that doesn't mean I don't know you. :)
whirrett: Yes I am in your class
Kynn: Cool, who're you?
ljwolfe: Kathy, thanks. I'm trying to work from home so I can be here for my son, and I don't have the car in the daytime, so it's been hard getting started.
KathyKolb: how big of a market (population) are you in?
Kynn: ljw, I think Ann is trying to find someone to teach a "starting your own web business" class. (No promises since it depends on an instructor, of course. :) )
Chris: I wonder if Judi (Business LG) would be interested - she has her own business
Kynn: Hmmm I'll have Ann check with her. ;)
ljwolfe: I'm in inland Southern California. Close enough to Los Angles that there seems to be lots of designers, but not close enough to make the commute to the LA jobs. sadcomp
ljwolfe: Kynn, you're local, how would you describe it?
Felan: Ah, yeah, population density is hard.
KathyKolb: how big is your local town?
Kynn: Southern California can be a real annoying place to do web stuff, yes. :)
Kynn: Most of the web jobs are "new media jobs" in Santa Monica or the west side of LA or the valley, I've found.
Kynn: And it's hard to find good new business as a freelancer.
KathyKolb: lj, give me your url
ljwolfe: Rialto is fairly small, but this is an urban sprawl. There's two large cities (county seats of big counties) within a 15-20 minute drive.
ljwolfe: My business site isn't quite how I'd like it yet (needs tweeking), but it's at <>.
KathyKolb: do you want to build small brouchure type sites or larger, database backed sites?
ljwolfe: Smaller ones. I'm familiar with dbases, but not the newer ones.
ljwolfe: *sigh* Fast moving field, and a 10 year old degree isn't worth much.
KathyKolb: degree in what?
ljwolfe: I learn fast, though, given the chance. I just haven't had the chance on those yet smiley
Felan: Try with the town/city government, maybe, see if they don't have a web page and want one?
ljwolfe: Computer Science.
Kynn: Town/city contracts are hard to get.
ljwolfe: From Cal Poly Pomona, which at least Kynn should recognize :-).
KathyKolb: do you want frank advice?
Kynn: Yay, Cow Poly.
ljwolfe: That's a thought. The city has one, but it's not very impressive.
ljwolfe: <giggle>
ljwolfe: Yes, please, Kathy.
KathyKolb: did you do the moondance, it looks differnet than others?
ljwolfe: Moondance was an existing e-zine when I started there two issues ago. I work on two departments, and follow their existing style.
KathyKolb: what graphic program are u using?
ljwolfe: I have Aldus PhotoStyler.
ljwolfe: I'd like to upgrade, but it takes money I can't spare.
KathyKolb: I had a similair situation as you might - I came from a programming background and had little to no art talent. Desire, interest yes, talent no.
KathyKolb: but the good news is you can overcome that, I think it's tougher to learn systems than to make pretty images now
KathyKolb: r u using a mac then?
ljwolfe: smiley The artisitc talent in the family skipped me. My sister is a profession graphic artist, though. She went the other way - art to computer.
ljwolfe: No, a PC, win 3.11.
KathyKolb: ok - fine. get inspired. go lok at beautiful sites - sites that make you want to cry for not being able to make sites as nice as them
KathyKolb: like
KathyKolb: go to and buy a used David Sigel boof for 4 bucks
KathyKolb: (book)
KathyKolb: go to your local library and read their art books, even from the 70s, and learn about color relationships (complementary, harmonic, etc)
KathyKolb: read the old typography books there and learn about color, texture, form, space, and how to USE them in your presentation - this info has not changed - just the Medium
KathyKolb: use blockquotes, tables, cell colors to set off areas, use imagse padding to give images space around them
ljwolfe: I remember some of that stuff from my ex's books - he was an art major.
KathyKolb: go look at the BIG sites, like wall street, cnet, amazon, zdnet, etc and try to analyze WHY they are laid out like they are
ljwolfe: Did you look at the Callahanian Army of Light site?
KathyKolb: yes
KathyKolb: I'd rather see a "family" of colors used on that page - colors that look comfy being next to each other
Kynn: Aie bright yellow :)
brainstorms: Been an interesting 1.5 hr, but I've gotta to bail
KathyKolb: when you start a site, determine a few colors you'll use
Kynn: Thanks for coming by, brainstorms!
KathyKolb: here's one of my first color family sites:
KathyKolb: white, red, black - very basic
Felan: Make sure, always, that your text stands out against the background.
Kynn: Color choices are good -- it's kinda spread out a bit, though, Kathy. (Not a big criticism.)
KathyKolb: but you get the idea - take control of your color usage - make it WORK for you and the information you're presenting
Felan: I can't tell you how many times I've had to explain that red text doesn't work on a black background. :)
Kynn: Colors are a real bitch at times.
Kynn: Heh Felan
KathyKolb: no - you're right - it's a loooong opening page
Kynn: Black backgrounds are simply awful.
ljwolfe: Re yellow: I wanted a color that said "light", and I try to stay with the 256-safe pallet. The next paler shade felt too whimpy for the feel I wanted that site to have.
KathyKolb: so maybe make the title and headers a color that plays well with the yellow?
Kynn: lj, these days I'm very much favoring white/plain backgrounds myself. You might want to do something like a 'sidebar' in a certain color.
Kynn: bazillions of major sites use sidebars all the time, and they're pretty effective -- people seem to understand them.
ljwolfe: I do heraldry as a hobby, so I'm familar with maintining contrast.
Felan: My brother has a tendency to use textured backgrounds; they work, usually, but are sometimes awkward.
KathyKolb: and then, get those text images anti aliased
Chris: I've always been a white background enthusiast, but the advent of WebTV makes me reconsider
Felan: He usually does a light grey and the texturing as a slightly darker grey.
ljwolfe: anti aliased?
Felan: You know, heraldry DOES explain why red text on a black background doesn't work. Thank you for explaining it to me. :)
Kynn: ? Felan
KathyKolb: they need to be created in a "true color" mode so that they don't have the jaggy look
whirrett: I came across a site with a black background that is neat IMHO. Clever idea anyway. It is at
Kynn: Chris, in my opinion, if 'pure white' is broken in webtv, the user agent should correct that by downgrading it to offwhite transparently.
ljwolfe: Color on color :-). Say, do you know March over at I forget which college?
KathyKolb: images made in 256 color mode will look rough
Kynn: March? Nope.
ljwolfe: Duh, I was thinking of Kynn. Sorry.
Kynn: Now I'm confused. :)
Kynn: I know this Kynn fellow. ;)
Chris: It is more than just that - TV 's handle colour differently to computers. What works well on computers is the complete opposite for TV
Felan: The basic heraldry thing, Kynn, is that colors aren't put on colors and metals aren't put on metals. Bad contrast. Metals are gold and silver; colors are usually green, blue, red, black, sometimes purple.
KathyKolb: I'm starting to run images thru the NTSC filter as a practice now due to web tv
Kynn: Yeah, but I think there should be an in-user-agent adaptation algorithm to handle that, Chris. :)
Felan: Usually the metals translate to white and yellow.
Kynn: But anyway
Chris: It is almost a case of having two colour systems - one of the reasons I liked your colour changer using CSS you played with some time back.
ljwolfe: March is a herald who attends one of the Claremont Colleges.
Kynn: Yeah, I should post that URL to my CSS class.
Kynn: I dunno any SCA folks, sorry. :)
ljwolfe: smiley At least he got the reference.
ljwolfe: Not too many other places to *do* heraldry in the US these days.
whirrett: Actually the guy who I do subcontract work for sent me that URL and said he considered that to be an excellent example of designing with the latest and greatest.
Kynn: Which URL?
Felan: If you have Usenet access, lj, check rec.heraldry. There's a batch of people there who are more real-world.
KathyKolb: this has been fun, but I need to turn in. Best of luck LJ, just keep at it and you'll do OK. Nite all
ljwolfe: Yeah, but they turn their noses up at we lowly SCA heralds, more often than not :-(.
Felan: Thanks for coming, Kathy.
ljwolfe: Thanks a lot, Kathy!
Felan: They do when someone expects them to know SCA heraldry. :)
ljwolfe: Anyway, my Usenet server stinks, so I have to resort to DejaNews.
Kynn: Here's a fun URL:
ljwolfe: Are you, by chance a herald and/or a SCAdian?
Kynn: It's one that Chris refered to earlier, it uses CGI scripts, cookies, and stylesheets to change the look of the HWG homepage.
Felan: I used to pay the SCA although I never did an event. Got an interest in heraldry then. I'm not a herald, though, even RL.
Felan: I looked with Netscape once, Kynn, and didn't see a whole lot of difference.
Felan: But then I wasn't necessarily paying much attention at the time.
Chris: Works well in IE4
Kynn: Well, you suck, Felan. Errrrr. :)
Kynn: In Netscape 4 you should at least be able to change it to blue and grey and "old guild look"
Felan: *smack*
ljwolfe: I'm the deputy to the baronial herald for Dreiburgen.
Kynn: Was that a "hit in the head" smack or a "cute peck on the cheek" smack?
Kynn: crybaby boo hoo crybaby
Kynn: Okay, Liz and I are going out to Olive Garden
Kynn: Thanks for coming by, everyone!
Felan: Hit on the head and you know it.
Felan: G'night Kynn.
Chris: good night
Kynn: ljw, if you want to do lunch sometime next week or later (when I'm working at HMC) lemme know, we'll get together other web people or something.
Kynn: ('do lunch'. So El Ay!)
Felan: Any of the rest of you have anything else you want to ask about the Guild? :)
ljwolfe: I'll let someone else talk for a change :-).
whirrett: Nothing more from me. I have to get my boy to bed. Been nice talking to all of you. Good night...
ljwolfe: Good night!
Chris: Well, since I'm here to answer questions on the LGP - LJ - what do you like/dislike about the current mailing lists?
ljwolfe: Well, I havn't actually gotten on any of them yet. I need to take a look at the options again.
Chris: No probs.
ljwolfe: And consider if I want to drop any of the lists I'm already on, since it's becoming a significant chunk of my day keeping up.
Chris: I certainly know that feeling!
ljwolfe: The two SCA lists can be over 100/day, worse when there's a hot topic!
ljwolfe: Then there's the PBeM that I'm web mommy for, and my husband has been GM for the last couple of months.
ljwolfe: Hi, will!
will: Hi
Chris: That is something I suppose should be listed with the charters - the email volume.
Chris: Hi Will handshake
ljwolfe: That would help!
will: Hi Chris
will: How was the meeting?
Chris: Not exactly on topic, but we all seemed to have fun
will: Good. Did I miss anything that I should know about?
ljwolfe: I know I got some good info.
Chris: Only a chance to talk to some of the GB members on a more personal level - Leanne is still here
will: Do they post the dialog?
Chris: Yep!
will: Great, I'll print it off tomorrow at work. I wanted to be here but it didn't work out.
Chris: Well, you can still ask questions!
will: What was the topic tonight anyway?
ljwolfe: I need to go. Household stuff that needs to be dealt with. I'll have to keep an eye out for meetings more often :-).
Chris: catch you later!
will: By lj
Chris: We were supposed to be discussing the mailing lists, but we never really got that far. Ended up talking about starting web design businesses
will: Ah, that's a good topic...I'm very interested in that.
will: The web design stuff
Chris: The log should be available in a few days. Previous logs are available on the site.
will: I'm currently in a c++ programming class and am trying to teach myself java
Chris: I've done a bit of C but personally don't have the time to learn more. I'd like to learn Java.
Chris: Kynn mentioned that there may be an online class in the future on starting up a web design company
will: I asked my professor the difference and he said java is just C++ with out pointers
Chris: *LOL*
will: I think that would be a good class...but hard to's such a wide topic
Chris: Getting a good instructor was the current delay :-)
will: I think Dr. Ralph Wilson ( i think that's his name) has done an excellent job in the business...he's also written several books on the subject
Chris: I expect they are looking for someone who would be willing to volunteer their services.
will: he might. he does a lot of work both fee and fee-less
will: hehehe
Chris: Leanne - can you make a note of that for Kynn?
will: I think it is or net
Chris: Probably the best way would be to have a couple of instructors in that type of topic. Get a couple of different views.
will: I agree. I've been cruising the web for a couple of weeks now just viewing big name sites for ideas of how to setup. The varities are endless
Chris: I don't make a career out of web design, so I'm probably not the best to ask :)
Chris: Then again, I've seen the sites of some "budding web designers" and know I can do better!
will: Actually, you would probably be the best to ask. it seems to me that the end user who will be using the site is the best to ask
Chris: About design certainly, but not about the rest of the business to running a web design shop.
Chris: There are things like drawing up contracts, dealing with problem customers, advertising and marketing, etc.
will: Oh, yeah, but design and content are some of the most important parts of the web design business...lawyers can help with some of that other stuff
Chris: We mentioned this before. We agreed that content was #1 when it came to web sites.
Chris: Site design as opposed to page design is what I believe should be #2
will: Have you seen the yale web design guide? I just started reading it
will: I agree
Chris: Ages ago! Neilson is one of my favourites for suggestions.
will: cool. I printed it off and have just started reading it tonight. I've been trying to set aside time for months now

End of meeting.

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