![[The HTML Writers Guild]](/images/lo-025.gif)
HWG.Org |
|---|
| Resources |
| Lists |
| Classes |
| Services |
| Books |
| Interact |
| Join! |
| News |
| Events |
| Contact |
| Sitemap |
| Search |
| HTML Writers Guild | Guild Operations | Events | 990826 Meeting |
Town Hall Meeting - 26 August 1999
(What follows is a log of the meeting, automatically generated by the eShare software.)
| Rackety | Hiya. |
|---|---|
|
***
Rackety has left #townhall (Rackety.)
*** Rackety has joined #townhall *** Rackety has left #townhall (Rackety.) *** Rolo1 has joined #townhall *** Rolo1 has quit IRC (Connection reset by peer.) *** HWGmember has joined #townhall | |
| HWGmember | #townhall |
| *** HWGmember is now known as andy | |
| Kynn | Hello! |
| andy | hmm.. didn't meen to whisper |
| Kynn | Weird. |
| andy | Long story... screen name |
| *** andy is now known as aaron | |
| Kynn | Okey dokey. |
| Kynn | Won't be anyone here for another half hour so I'm going to idle for a bit. |
| aaron | k |
| *** HWGmember has joined #townhall | |
| Kynn | Hello new person! :) |
| *** Carole has joined #townhall | |
| Carole | Good Evening everybody! |
| ***
Carole has quit IRC (Leaving the chat page..)
*** Carole has joined #townhall | |
| Carole | Hi Everybody! Kynn, I thought our Secretary was tonite's host, not that I object to you being host again. :) |
| ***
ShannonP has joined #townhall
*** Trek has joined #townhall | |
| Carole | Welcome Shannon and Trekkie |
| Trek | good evening |
| ShannonP | Hello |
| Carole | I think Kynn is still having dinner. Always gets the room ready while trying to grab a bite. :) |
| Trek | LOL |
| Trek | i take it i am on time then |
| Carole | Have you been to any meetings before? |
| Trek | not i |
| Carole | Well, it's fun, so glad you could make it. And yes, you are early, actually. ;) |
| Trek | cool |
| Carole | Any "hot topics" you want to address? |
| Trek | not at the moment |
| Carole | Hmmm, I'm not sure what the adgenda is yet, but I'm sure we'll find out! |
| Carole | Shannon, have you been here before? |
| Carole | Aaron, are you in the JS class right now? |
| ShannonP | Sorry, I'm finishing up some things - No, this is my first meeting. |
| Carole | Sorry *NOT* required here. No problem. |
| aaron | no i am not |
| Carole | Glad to see you here, too! |
| ***
Carole has quit IRC (Leaving the chat page..)
*** aaron is now known as achoate *** Carole has joined #townhall *** frank has joined #townhall | |
| frank | Hi ther Frank boumphrey joining |
| Carole | Hi Frank! I *LUV* your Style Sheets book. |
| ShannonP | Howdy Frank |
| frank | Thanks Carole |
| frank | Hi shannon |
| frank | This is my firstime using an IRC! |
| *** Rolo1 has joined #townhall | |
| Kynn | Hello everyone! Glad to see you got it working, Frank! |
| *** iris77788 has joined #townhall | |
| Kynn | Well, it looks like it's about that time, so I'll open the August town hall meeting... |
| Kynn | I'm Kynn Bartlett, I'm the president of the Guild; I also write the newsletters and run the AWARE Center as well as teaching online classes. |
| Kynn | Frank here is our VP of Special Events including conferences and such, and he also teaches online courses. |
| Kynn | If you like, feel free to introduce yourself as well; I'm informal and don't insist on being the only one talking! |
| frank | Thats news tome Kynn |
| *** Lester has joined #townhall | |
| Trek | LOL |
| Trek | my true name is marc, and i am kinda a newbie to the meeting and IRC |
| *** cfealy has joined #townhall | |
| Carole | Well, I'm Carole Gay. I'm a TA for the JS class, a not so active lately volunteer for the AWARE center. I've been a member since '95 and typically talk tooooooo much. |
| *** HWGmember has quit IRC (Leaving the chat page..) | |
| Lester | Hi, guys. |
| *** HWGmember has joined #townhall | |
| Rolo1 | My name is Gary, This is also my first townhall meeting |
| iris77788 | Hello! My name is Heather. I've been a member for almost two years but this is the first town hall meeting I have been able to attend |
| Kynn | Welcome to all of you who are new and who have been here before, too. |
| Lester | My first meeting, too. I've been a member for almost a year. |
| Carole | Hi to you, too, Lester. Glad to see Ms. Fealy here too! |
| cfealy | Hi! |
|
***
Carole has quit IRC (Leaving the chat page..)
*** Carole has joined #townhall | |
| Rolo1 | I've been a member for about 2 years or so, but my first meeting |
| Kynn | Lester, hello! And whoever else just came in. :) |
| Trek | carole must be button happy this eve |
| Carole | Wow, I like the number of people here tonite. |
| achoate | "float" |
| Kynn | The point of these meetings is to allow you, the membership, to have an opportunity to talk to us and each other about the Guild. |
| iris77788 | How many people usually attend? |
| Carole | No, every time I do a reply on ICQ i get evicted. so turned it off. |
| Kynn | For that reason I don't like to set an agenda but instead just let you members set the topics. If we go on too long, though, I may ask us to move along. :) |
| frank | I would like to ask if any one of you have taken Guild classes, and if so what have you thought of them |
| Kynn | The perennial town hall topic. :) |
| Carole | Grunches!!! |
| Carole | MAJOR LOL |
| Lester | I've taken ten or eleven. :) |
| *** Mikey has joined #townhall | |
| Carole | Hi Mikey |
| frank | Sorry I'm new so lets leave that topic if you want! |
| Mikey | Hi Carole |
| Rolo1 | I took an HTML 4.0 course last year and I like it until the end. I had switched computers and was never able to complete it |
| Kynn | I think Lester may hold the record for the most HWG classes! |
| Kynn | No, it's okay, Frank. :) |
| Kynn | Hi Mikey. |
| Carole | Probably. |
| Mikey | Hi Kynn |
| Kynn | Oh, here's another topic. What do you think of the new lists? HWG-Style and HWG-XML? |
| Carole | And Frank, we LUV to talk about classes here. *GRIN* |
| Rolo1 | I like the Style one very much.. Great idea |
| Kynn | I'd like to thank Aaron Choate (achoate) for his great work in getting those lists set up. |
| frank | Not much activity as of yet |
| iris77788 | Intro to Photoshop - Unfortunately at the end of the class I was still having trouble but the instructor was unwilling to help because the class had ended. Otherwise I really liked the class |
| achoate | thanks |
| Kynn | Aaron is our list admin and helps keep everything running smoothly behind the scenes; he doesn't get as much credit as he should, so I want everyone to know that he's appreciated! |
| Carole | Aaron, you're the good guy! Nice JOB! |
| achoate | heh |
| Lester | Kudos, Aaron. :) |
| Trek | thx aaron |
| Rolo1 | Good Job Aaron |
| Carole | Ok, we're giving him a swelled head. That's great. :) |
| achoate | POP! |
| Rolo1 | lol |
| Trek | LOL |
| Kynn | As far as classes go -- are there other types of classes that we're not offering that you'd like to see? The perennials are "advanced perl" and "advanced javascript" -- anything else? |
| Kynn | AUGH i got ACHOATE BRAINZ on me |
| Rolo1 | lol |
| Lester | I haven't taken *every* course yet, so I can't say for sure what I think's missing. :) |
| Carole | Yup, posted a message on the Guild Futures board. How about some classes on So you wanna build a shopping cart, and other more "real world" applications. |
| Kynn | Carole, that's an interesting idea; I wonder, though, how applicable some of the material would be. E.g., shopping carts depend a LOT on your server arrangements. |
| Rolo1 | There have been allot of movement into asp and server side dynamic pages. maybe something in that area |
|
***
Lester has quit IRC (Leaving the chat page..)
*** Felan has joined #townhall | |
| Felan | In case anyone was wondering, Win95 is a rotten OS. |
| *** Nuclear42 has joined #townhall | |
| Carole | I mean, now that we all have our feet wet with languages. Yes, Kynn, but in general terms, "Here's what you need to do" then apply the server requirements |
| frank | We cover that in our asp class |
| Kynn | We've got an ASP class -- Frank teaches it! Hey, new arrival. |
| Kynn | Hello, Felan! Felan is Leanne Phillips, she is our HWG Secretary and VP of Member Education or Member Services or something. |
| frank | now now leane |
| Carole | Well, sign me up for ASP then. But my server is UNIX and isn't ASP a BillSoft product? |
| *** Les has joined #townhall | |
| Kynn | Maybe we need an e-commerce class, Carole? I know that people are real psyched about the Web Management class -- an "overview" type class on ecommerce could be useful. |
| Kynn | Hi again Les |
| achoate | how about php? |
| frank | Yes I dont think you can do it on unix |
| Les | hi. E-commerce sounds like a great idea to me. |
| Carole | I agree on that E-commerce class. |
| Kynn | PHP would be great. I'd love to see someone volunteer to teach it. :) |
| frank | I have a Prof in Toronto who teaches a course in e-commerce. He woiuld be willing to teachan HWG class |
| achoate | ummm... me too |
| iris77788 | would it be focused on a specific ecommerce solution? |
| achoate | *smile* |
| Les | And perhaps a linux class for all those windows users. I hear that the new Macs will be linux based soon. |
| Carole | LOL |
| Kynn | I want to learn PHP -- I have a book, just haven't sat down with it -- so I can't teach it. :) |
| Felan | It IS, Frank, it's why I'm late. |
| Les | What's PHP? |
| frank | Im struggling with linnux on an old machine of mine right now. |
| Felan | What's PHP? Is it something to do CGI with on Unix? |
| Felan | That's our man, Frank! |
| achoate | I've been playing with it for some apps at the Library, but would not classify myself as.. teacher quality yet |
| Carole | My husband would be an excellent LINUX teacher. It's part of what he does |
| Kynn | PHP is an inline server side scripting language built into Apache. |
| frank | The learning curveis quite steep for Linux IMO |
| Les | Thanks, Kynn. |
| frank | PHP looks very similar to ASP |
| Felan | Ah, oh, Kynn. |
| Kynn | Part of the problem with Linux could be that most of the major help you may not be able to do online, as someone's computer may not be functioning at the time! |
| Felan | I suspect it's one of the things on my list of things to learn. |
| Carole | But it's been around for years and is a boon to the almost Unix folks. |
| *** ShannonP has quit IRC (Leaving.) | |
| Felan | Is our topic 'learning programming' or 'more classes' or 'whatever we think of saying' right now? :) |
| iris77788 | what other classes would you like to see taught? |
| Carole | I can suggest RED HAT as an excellent program. |
| frank | Linux is real fast! Its a joy touse an application on it after windows! |
| Kynn | Right now it's 'what other classes' :) |
| Kynn | We should probably avoid the 'linux rulez' and 'windoze blows' thread for now. :) |
| Carole | And, if you want to run dual-processor stuff, you can run a virtual WIN system via LINUX. |
| cfealy | Is there a class for "how to sell yourself to a client"? |
| *** Nuclear42 has quit IRC (Leaving.) | |
| Carole | No, but a good idea. |
| Les | I'd suggest the Web Management class, cfealy. |
| Kynn | There's not, nope. |
| Kynn | Les likes me. |
| Kynn | :) |
| Kynn | The next session of the web management class should rock. |
| Les | It just makes sense. If you want to sell yourself to a client, it's more a case of asking them the right questions. |
| Kynn | This is the first time through so Lester is a guinea pig. |
| cfealy | I'll be sure to sign up :-) |
| Kynn | Hey, here's a question. |
| Kynn | How did you guys find the HTML Writers Guild, and what specifically caught your interest? |
| Kynn | We have a new marketing consultant who is asking us, on the board, questions like that. |
| Rolo1 | The mailing lists and mingling with people that know the business. learning new things etc |
| Kynn | So I want to hear from some of you what you think the HTML Writers Guild is all about, since you have a very different perspective. |
| Felan | Yeah, what Kynn said. |
| iris77788 | support |
| *** Carole has quit IRC (Ping timeout.) | |
| Les | Here's my answer, Kynn. I took a 3-day HTML class at a local junior college. At the end of the course, I asked the instructor where I could learn more. He said, "Well, I got this job through an HWG contact." |
| *** Carole has joined #townhall | |
| Kynn | Cool, Les! |
| Trek | i was browsing some friends pages and noticed each one had a link back to HWG so i checked it out, and was interested in the program. all the offers and info were especially interesting |
| Carole | Ugh, I'm getting kicked out again. |
| frank | I signed up for the HTML techniques list |
| Kynn | Carole, you have the worst luck staying connected! |
| *** iris77788 has left #townhall (iris77788.) | |
| Carole | Yeah, I think it's all these ethernet connections running all over my house1 |
| Carole | So what was cool that Les said? |
| Kynn | That he took a class and his instructor said he got the job through an HWG contact, when Les asked where he could learn more. |
| Mikey | HWG is a place where standards for web development are promoted and taught, reguardless of the environment or development tools. |
| Kynn | The way I (as president and a member of the board) view the HTML Writers Guild is that it's a support network for the web creator. No one of us knows everything, but we know the Guild, and members of the HWG know things. |
| achoate | I was introduce to a list called hwg-talk by one of my coworkers and then offered to volunteer when a call for a group of "list guides" was put out |
| Carole | Ah ha. I was hunting for any help I could find cause I was taking a class with a teacher who didn't have a clue (special arrangement). |
| achoate | or was it main |
| achoate | i forget |
| Rolo1 | as a webmaster of a small non profit site, it was a place to learn, and get advice and opinions. |
| Carole | So I searched frantically and found HWG - Thank goodness!! |
| Kynn | Maybe -maim, Aaron. |
| achoate | *smile* |
| Felan | What do you guys think of the recent mailing list changes? |
| Rolo1 | there are several lists you can join whether they are broad like the basics list or more specailized like the style list |
| Carole | LOL |
| Felan | Oh, Kynn says he asked that. |
| Felan | See? I was late and now I don't know. *sulk* |
| Kynn | It's all Bill Gates' fault! |
| Carole | They are good, but only the Style list seems to be active right now. |
| Kynn | Yeah, I think XML will be slow in getting started. |
| Carole | LOL!!! |
| frank | Why Kynn? |
| Kynn | Because it's still 'new stuff' to the vast majority of our members. |
| Kynn | I don't even feel that comfortable with my own grasp on XML! I may have to sit down with your book for a day or so. |
| frank | What do the rest of you think of XM: |
|
***
Carole1 has joined #townhall
*** Felan2 has joined #townhall | |
| Kynn | Hi Felan and Carole |
| Kynn | We are talking about XML |
| Felan2 | Aigh. Bounce the old me, please, Kynn? |
| Kynn | Oh BTW I mean 'the XML list' not 'XML' itself. :) |
| Rolo1 | thats what I would like to learn next is the XML |
|
***
Carole has quit IRC (Connection reset by peer.)
*** Felan has quit IRC (Ping timeout.) | |
| achoate | I think it will be good when we get a good browser implimentation of the standard |
| Kynn | Frank is our XML guy :) |
| *** Felan2 is now known as Felan | |
| Les | What do you guys recommend as an IRC program for Windows? I'm visiting through the default Java IRC right now. |
| Carole1 | Regarding this "how to get a client to hire you", I can make a wee suggestion. Find a site that does something you know well, and needs some work. Send email. It works. :) Another suggestion, find a company that needs to be on the web, and offer your services. That works too! |
| Felan | I'm using mIRC, Les. |
| frank | IE5 is preety good, and the new gecko browsers will be even better. |
| Rolo1 | I'm using Pirch 98, its a good one, fairly simple to use |
| achoate | IE5 scares me in what they decied not to implement, but am excited aboiut gecko |
| frank | Im using mIRC as well. This is my first time and it seems quite easy to use. |
| Carole1 | I think I will have to try that IRC. stuff cause I get booted more than I care to imagine. |
| *** Scott has joined #townhall | |
| frank | must be if I can use it :) |
| Les | Thanks, all. |
| Felan | Hi Scott |
| achoate | I am using the java client on the interact page |
| Carole1 | Hi Scott. |
| Rolo1 | I have found the IRC clients are allot more stable than the java clients, just personal experience though |
| achoate | I agree, but I haven't crashed so far *smile* |
| Rolo1 | *knock on wood* |
| Carole1 | Well, guys, keep talking. I have to go to the airport. My better half is coming back from Seattle (major network upgrade, yuck) so he's been gone this week. Hope you're still here when I get back. |
| *** Scott has quit IRC (Bye.) | |
| Trek | safe drive carole |
| Carole1 | thanks |
| Les | solong carole |
| *** Carole1 has quit IRC (Bye.) | |
| Kynn | I'm using mIRC on win98 too. |
| Felan | Is there anything you guys think we should be doing that we're not? |
| Les | Looks like you're outvoted, Rolo. :) |
| frank | You're using windows kynn! |
| Rolo1 | lol |
| frank | And I thought you were a 'real' programmer:) |
| Rolo1 | I have mIRC but was talked into this Pirch98 by some friends |
| Kynn | I always use windows for my desktop machine. :) |
| Rolo1 | lol |
| Kynn | It's a nice toy that lets me access the real computers. |
| frank | aha! |
| HWGmember | is everyone here on the board, or are there some real members here? |
| Les | I'm not on the board. |
| achoate | i'm a member |
| Rolo1 | real members??? |
| cfealy | I'm a member tambien |
| Rolo1 | I'm a full member does that count? |
| Kynn | There are lots of real members! Only 3 board members present. |
| frank | sorry, I though that I was a real member:) |
| Rolo1 | lol |
| Trek | member |
| Kynn | I pay my dues, I must be a member! |
| achoate | Nope, check your board papers... *smile* |
|
***
Mikey has quit IRC (Ping timeout.)
*** MikeyInAK has joined #townhall | |
| achoate | In the fine print.. |
| HWGmember | is this a typical turnout for a town meeting? |
| Les | Another question: How can members find one another through the Guild? How do I find Frank's e-mail and Web page, for instance? |
| Felan | I'm a real member, I pay dues! |
| Rolo1 | wasn't there a list not too long ago.. |
| Felan | Alas, yes, Memb. |
| Kynn | This is typical, HWGmember. |
| Felan | We want more, but can't get more to show up. |
| Kynn | Les, for privacy reasons we don't have a public or member-public membership list. |
| HWGmember | Ok, so everybody's a member! That's great! |
| cfealy | Maybe you should promise them beer or something. |
| grin | |
| Kynn | However, you could find out Frank's email address if he posts to a list! |
| Felan | Well, Les, mostly you get email addresses by seeing them post, and then you email him and ask him for his web page. :) |
| MikeyInAK | Who updates the HWG web site? I noticed a few pages that are out of date |
| Les | Hmmm. Well, when I'm in a class, I can follow a link to every other student's e-mail address. But once the class is over, I can't. Doesn't seem right, somehow. |
| achoate | You should be able to mail to the person who is listed in the header ot the footer of the page |
|
***
MikeyInAK has quit IRC (Leaving the chat page..)
*** MikeyInAK has joined #townhall | |
| cfealy | Would it be too difficult to offer a portfolio link (database driven, of course) for members? |
| Kynn | Yeah, if you see anything that's obviously out of date, PLEASE mail the maintainer! We have limited volunteer resources and every helpful eyeball helps! |
| Kynn | Right now, yes, cfealy. :) |
| Les | AFK |
| MikeyInAK | Will do. |
| Kynn | Our current database has been held together the last two years by duct tape, chewing gum, and lots of prayers. We are investing a sizeable amount of money in building a "real" DB system. |
| frank | How about it cfealy, that would be great! |
| Felan | Many many prayers. |
| Felan | And a few curses. |
| Kynn | That should be available before the end of the year and could possibly offer that kind of functionality. The tricky part would be a disclaimer to protect the Guild's corporate assets regarding member claims. |
| Felan | There's also a bit of an issue of protecting that list, if we put one together, from harvesters - I don't personally know a good way to do that. |
| Felan | We do NOT want our membership lists harvested by spammongers! |
| frank | How do you stop that! |
| Kynn | E.g., if the database lists you, and someone hires you, and you cheat them, can they sue the guild? if you have no money, they might mistakenly assume that we have Deep Pockets. |
| frank | They can always sue, but they can't always collect |
| Kynn | Or, it's possible that a Guild member could enter as a portfolio entry a site they didn't create. E.g. "I created www.disney.com" when they didn't. |
| cfealy | Ahhh... I understand. Maybe the Graphics Artists' Guild lawyers have some insight into the legal issues.... |
| Kynn | Well, they couldn't collect because, despite our numbers, we're not rich so you can't get blood from a turnip! :) But the expense of defending ourselves in court would be damaging to the HWG. |
| Felan | Extremely so. |
| cfealy | ... but I think they have money. |
| Kynn | We'd also have to look at what the GAG (is that their acronym, really?) and others have done, and if they're the same type of organization, under the law, that we are. |
| frank | Actually you can't be liable if you offer info in good faith. However that doesnt stop someone filing suite, and then you have to defend yourself |
| MikeyInAK | Would not the same rules apply that apply to job search web sites that allow people to post resumes and the like? |
| frank | They are usually full of disclaimers |
| Kynn | Yes and no, Mikey -- they have money for lawyers and are generally run as "for profit" sites. We are run as a non-profit educational organziation and so there may be limits on what we can do. |
| Kynn | For example, we are limited in the amount of our budget that we can spend towards "professional" activities -- a complex data bank system may exceed that, but the current HWG-Jobs information list is doable. |
| frank | Being an educational organization actually puts us in the same position as the press. not only must we have acted negligently, but we must have done the negligence deliberatly |
| frank | sorry, can't type, can't spell! |
| Les | I have to run, folks. Good seeing you all. |
| Felan |
Hey, glad you could show up, Les. Please come to the next one too!
*** Les has quit IRC (Bye.) |
| Kynn | Yes, I am agreeing that we could defend ourselves, but I am also not wanting to spend membership dues on legal fees if we can avoid it! :) |
| frank | One case would eat up our entire budget! |
| cfealy | Just checked the GAG.org page (yes, really *grin* ) and they have a massive disclaimer and are also affiliated with the UAW. |
| Rolo1 | hmm maybe you can get members to help out |
| Felan | Prolly not at a significant level, Rolo. |
| Felan | So! Anything else we're not offering that you would like us to? :) |
| Rolo1 | looks like I need to drop back over to the class site and take another look |
| cfealy | Brain implant? I've got a lot of catching up to do! *grin* |
| Rolo1 | lol |
| Kynn | Aha, yes, as a full-fledged _union_ the GAG is a much much different entity from the HWG, in legal terms. |
| Kynn | They can do things we could never possibly dream of doing, and vice versa. |
| Rolo1 | Is HWG really that broke?? |
| frank | I woulld like to ask a question. What additional educational activities would you like to see us provide? |
| Felan | Well, we're not rich, that's for sure. |
| Kynn | No, we're not broke! We just are not...well, what Felan said. :) |
| frank | Its called hand to mouth! |
| Rolo1 | lol |
| Rolo1 | ok |
| Kynn | The Guild is in a lot better shape financially than we have EVER been; the last year or so we've been able to do amazing things thanks to member support. |
| Felan | We don't have the money for a protracted court case, for sure, and our operating budget is not very large. |
| Rolo1 | maybe we should be talking not about what you can do for us... etc etc |
| Kynn | But in many ways we don't have nearly as much money to spend as people think we have -- someone tried to get us to spend $30,000 on a party or something, wasn't it? |
| frank | Actually our real assetts are our members and volunteers |
| Kynn | Rolo, actually, when Leanne says 'us' I usually think of it as asking 'what do _we want to do together_' rather than what (some of us) can do for (some of you). :) |
| Felan | Just ('just') $11k. |
| Rolo1 | I'll be honest with the exception of the lists and 1 class I haven't really been involved as much as I would like to be |
| frank | Yep 30000 dollars to entertain our European members! |
| Kynn | The board likes to include the members in the decision making process, because that's what the HTML Writers Guild is all about. |
| Felan | Oh was it $30k? I missed that part. |
| Kynn | So really Felan is asking 'What would you like to volunteer to help with?' :) :) ) |
| Rolo1 | lol |
| Felan | I would certainly adore it if people volunteered to help with anything they see as lacking, yes. :) |
| Trek | good night all, wish i could stay, but have work in the am |
| *** Trek has left #townhall (Trek.) | |
| frank | Hey rolo, youre here!! |
| Kynn | Bye Trek! |
| Rolo1 | mostly what I do is setting up non profit communites. nothing like what all of you do I am sure |
| Rolo1 | and pretty much lurk on the lists |
| frank | That should be not for profit |
| Kynn | Well, we are a non-profit and we are a community, so perhaps we can work together. :) |
| Rolo1 | lol |
| MikeyInAK | Where's Barney? |
| frank | I have been involved with alot of non-profit organizations, but they didnt want to be that way! |
| Kynn | (Maybe we shouldn't have put frank on the Board!) |
| Rolo1 | I wrote and maintain a Transplant support web site and host the bb's and chat room. |
| Rolo1 | lol |
| Rolo1 | ours is a support not for profit, although I accept donations for the site lol |
| frank | whats the url rolo, sounds interesting |
| Kynn | Frank is a doctor, he's into that medical stuff. Me, I am scared of hospitals. |
| Rolo1 | http://www.geocities.com/~rolo1/ |
| Kynn | And VERY scared of FRANK! |
| frank | Thanks rolo |
| Rolo1 | nothing large like I said. mostly small time, but getting there |
| Felan | Hospitals are scary darned places. |
| frank | Well I never Kynn, and I thought I was such a gentle guy! |
| Rolo1 | We began on Prodigy and have migrated up to the web |
| Kynn | :) |
| Kynn | Come to the HWG Town Hall, everyone! Watch the Board members tease each other! |
| Rolo1 | That's where I found HWG, was on there. |
| Rolo1 | lol |
| *** brewer has joined #townhall | |
| Kynn | Hello brewer! |
| brewer | Hi |
| *** bk has joined #townhall | |
| Kynn | Hello bk! |
| Felan | Keen, Rolo |
| frank | Neat site rolo(and i like the music!) |
| brewer | This is my first time. What are we discussing? |
| Rolo1 | Thank you |
| *** HWGmember has quit IRC (Bye.) | |
| Kynn | Right now we are discussing...hm. I'm not sure if we're discussing anything right now. :) |
| brewer | Ok I'll open with something. Is anyone aware of the free certification exams going on at www.tekmetrics.com? |
| frank | No tell me more |
| Kynn | I'm aware. I took one. :) |
| brewer | Which one Kynn? |
| Kynn | I have a 'Master HTML Programmer' certificate sitting on my desk right now. |
| Kynn | The only reason I got some points marked off is because their test is flawed. :) I spotted some "bugs" in their answers but hey what can ya do. |
| brewer | cool. I only have an entry level Web programmer cert. |
| brewer | My strong point was HTML and I'm going to take the HTML programming test. |
| Felan | Was it anything useful, Kynn? |
| brewer | This was the 14th when I tested and as far as I know it is free for 30 days. |
| Kynn | I dunno, not really useful. |
| Kynn | But hey it was free. |
| Kynn | *shrug* |
| *** cfealy has quit IRC (Leaving the chat page..) | |
| Kynn | It's actually a decent looking certificate, I'm amused that they paid for it to be shipped and stuff. :) |
|
***
HWGmember has joined #townhall
*** HWGmember is now known as cfealy | |
| brewer | I figure for someone trying to break into the business it could be useful. |
| *** MikeyInAK has quit IRC (Bye.) | |
| Kynn | But in short it only told me something I knew anyway -- I kick @$$ at HTML. At risk of sounding egotistical, I knew that already, because it's what I do for a living. |
| Kynn | Maybe, brewer. I'm not sure if it would impress me as an employer very much, though. When we hired an employee to do web design, "certifications" were actually a detriment in some cases. |
| brewer | So Kynn throw me some pointers on how to start a career.? |
| Kynn | E.g. someone who was certified in FrontPage or whatever. |
| frank | I just looked at the C page. Perhaps i'll give that a try! |
| achoate | Would you show the cert to somebody who was questioning the level of expertise... OR rely on your work... I guess that's the question when deciding whether to go for certs... |
| Kynn | Okay, lessee. First thing to figure out is what you want your career to be. :) Web designer? |
| *** bk has quit IRC (Bye.) | |
| Kynn | I wouldn't show mine to anyone, Aaron, except for bragging rights. ;) |
| Kynn | I think I beat Ann's score. |
| brewer | and programmer. |
| achoate | *smile* |
| Kynn | Okay, these days web design is getting pretty specialized especially in big companies -- you may want to specialize in graphics, or java, or ASP, or cold fusion, or storyserver, or something specific. |
| Kynn | Specific expertise makes you more employable than broad jack-of-all-trade-master-of-none experience. |
| brewer | I'm leaning torward Java and JavaScript. |
| Kynn | Okay, that's a good start because there's a lot of demand for it; although it should be noted that a lot of people do that now anyway. |
| brewer | Also I have alot of experience in graphics such as 3D modeling. |
| brewer | Thats what I do now. |
| Kynn | That's not to discourage you as much as to suggest that you will need to distinguish yourself from the crowd somehow. |
| brewer | Any suggestions for distinguishing myself? |
| Kynn | Now you've put me on the spot. :) I'm much better at HTML trivia quizzes than at career advisement! |
| brewer | I'm sorry I was just wondering. Thanks so much for the help you have offered. |
| Kynn | No, actually, let me see what a good answer would be. |
| frank | Persistence always helps |
| brewer | Thanks frank. |
| Kynn | Have you looked much at the job listings? Do you have an idea of what your ideal job would be? Check to make sure it exists first! |
| Kynn | Skim over something like monster.com and find a job that you'd like to have in a year but aren't yet ready for. |
| Kynn | Then figure out what sort of experience you'd need in this next year to get that job. Maybe apply for the job NOW and ask them what you're lacking when they turn you down. |
| frank | The other thing that is help ful is a keen idea of where you want to end up, and be flexible about the means you use to get there |
| brewer | I have been watching the job listings for about a year and a half at atlantajobs.com |
| Kynn | Ahhh, you're from Jaw Juh. :) |
| brewer | I like that suggestion frank thats the way I like to do things. |
| Kynn | What kind of job openings do you see that you'd be interested in? |
| Kynn | Frank is smarter than I am, he's had more interesting jobs, you should listen to him, not me! |
| brewer | Yes there is a big market for web developement in hotlanta right now. |
| frank | Parkinson, who was an expert at this pointed out that the maincharacteristic of a high flyer was the ability to do jobs that others found distasteful |
| frank | By this he meant that if no one wanted to take the minutes, a high flyer would do this |
| brewer | Its hard to say what I'm interested in because I have not had a web job yet. |
| frank | Ask the question at interviews, how can I help you? |
| brewer | I have a friend who is web master/programmer/sysadmin for a local ISP. That sounds interesting. |
| frank | Try and develop skills that others don't have |
| frank | Do you realize how much knowledge you need to do that job well? |
| Felan | Am I a high flyer because I accepted being Secretary of the Guild which means I have to take minutes, then? :) |
| frank | Most definatly! |
| brewer | Yes and it is a little more than I have right now but is still the only position I have to measure myself against. |
| brewer | I have some volunteer site building jobs lined up for my spare time and am hoping I can get more feel for what that entails as I learn. |
| frank | I've got to go, my wife is giving me nasty looks! (I'm eastern time) |
| frank | Bye all |
| Felan | That's a good way to start, brewer. |
| Felan | G'night Frank! |
| Rolo1 | Bye Frank |
| achoate | gnite frank |
| *** frank has quit IRC (Leaving.) | |
| Felan | You learn a lot doing site building that way, and it'll let you know what you need to do next - and gives you experience to tell employers. |
| brewer | Whats that please? |
| Felan | Volunteer jobs. |
| brewer | Sorry I wasn't paying attention when I missed the chance to say goodnight ot frank. |
| brewer | to frank |
| brewer | Which by the way I need to say to all too. |
| Rolo1 | Good Night brewer |
| brewer | I really appreciate all the help ya'll have offered. |
| Rolo1 | I need to run myself, Take care alll and thank you. |
| brewer | I feel a little more confidence about what ideas I have had so far. |
| achoate | night |
| *** Rolo1 has left #townhall (Rolo1.) | |
| brewer | night |
| *** brewer has quit IRC (Bye.) | |
| achoate | hmmm.. and then they all took off |
| achoate | night |
| *** achoate has quit IRC (Bye.) | |
| cfealy | Guess I'll go too... thanks for hosting! |
|
***
cfealy has quit IRC (Bye.)
Session Close: Thu Aug 26 20:09:14 1999 | |
End of meeting.
![[Valid HTML 4.0!]](/images/vh40.gif){kind=small}